Profile of Lost in ApeCoin
Posts by Lost
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Working Group Team Chart
by Lost - Accepted AIP Author
Posted on: Sept. 27, 2024, 11:03 a.m.
Content: This would need to update again to reflect the repositioning of the facilitators, outside of GWG, right ?
Likes: 2
Replies: 2
Replies:
- AllCityBAYC: Yes… Unclear what’s going on with this.
AC
- BojangleGuy: Yes. I will post an updated one here later today.
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AIP-451: Improving Voting Cycle Efficiency and Shortening the AIP Process
by Lost - Accepted AIP Author
Posted on: June 27, 2024, 4:36 p.m.
Content: Hi @SmartAPE !
Thanks for reaching out to coordinate. I submitted the original version of this proposal after one of the ApeComms stages where @nataliecrue offered her experience around common voter behavior across DAO’s. The original submission aimed to introduce a 4 -day voting cycle, a hard pivot away from the 13 -day voting cycle. I don’t believe the update has had a positive impact on any part of the community, by any measure. Based on the feedback in this thread and across other community discussion platforms I updated the core suggestion to simply revert the voting cycle back to the old 6 -day cadence, with a minor update to the language and the exact time for proposals to go live.
The voting cycle being rooted in UTC accounts for communication challenges which come up globally around daylight savings time.
The update to AIP ID assignment is meant to increase the value of those AIP ID #'s for the community.
Aiming to prevent proposals which are withdrawn for some reason, before vote, from also destroying what should be regarded as valuable community assets - AIP ID #'s,
without fundamentally changing the expectation to have received an AIP ID while going up to vote. I believe that the author proceeding through the process to the extent that they make it up for community vote indicates some willingness to return value back to the community, and the AIP ID # helps with marketing while the author is up to vote.
The suggestion to make optional the 7 -day AIP Idea phase aims to resolve several challenges.
In part to remedy what I believe is a misnomer whereby the community may be led to believe that they can only provide feedback for 7 days, when the reality is that updates can and are made to proposals at any point up until they go live.
Ironically, the “Idea phase” introduces the only guideline for a topic to close, which has resulted in some proposals being shut off from any community discussion for weeks until the author signals willingness to progress to the next steps of the process.
For anyone looking in, you can view the series of edits which have been made by clicking the pencil in the top right of the topic post.
I did have some discussion with others in the community already about adding some of the same elements that you’re suggesting here, and I am happy to help get a chat together for us to problem solve on a follow up proposal.
SmartAPE:
Proposals that are ready to go to vote, will be posted on Snapshot within 3 days of the vote going live. Such proposals will have a “Pending” status. To wit, with voting every Tuesday, the proposals must be up on Snapshot the Fri prior.
There are several logistical challenges with the suggestion to post proposals as pending 3 days prior, especially given a 6 day voting cycle. e.g. APE Foundation ability and/or willingness to commit to those logistics, posting proposals during the voting cycle would burry live proposals, and that sort of update would almost certainly add more friction than it removes for authors who are hoping to move quickly through the AIP process.
SmartAPE:
Regardless of the number of proposals in the queue, the GwG will focus on the 5 most recent proposals which have since passed admin review, and as such, are ready to go up on Snapshot. This means that at no time should there be more than 5 proposals up for vote. And in the event that there are less than 5 ready for vote, then all such proposals are deemed eligible.
This suggestion may be rooted in a bit of a misunderstanding.
Once a proposal moves over to Administrative Review, the APE Foundation would give the final signal to the DAO’s administrative team, indicating which proposals are ready to go live for vote.
This would need to be directed at the APE Foundation.
SmartAPE:
The GwG will create a Discourse forum thread entitled “Proposals Status Schedule” with a link to an AirTable (similar to this) which outlines the current status of all proposals, and sorted in a manner that shows the DAO which proposals are ready to be in the voting queue. The following data is required in the table:
Similar to the response for # 2 above, this would need to be pointed at the APE Foundation.
Let’s plan to connect more directly about this sooner than later. :apekinnote:
Likes: 1
Replies: 1
Replies:
- SmartAPE: Lost:
Let’s plan to connect more directly about this sooner than later.
Sounds good. Ping me any time.
I would rather not usurp the premise of your AIP because I believe that yours is headed in the right direction. And the whole impetus for mine (which I will now deprecate) was to augment yours. To that end, I am always happy to have further discussions to see where this lands ahead of admin review.
As you can see, my points (rescued from the rejected proposal) above were designed to find the sweet spot between 14-day and 7-day cycles, while providing AIP authors with ample time, while also giving both authors and the community an insight into the state of proposals when they go into admin review.
It also prevents the glut of AIPs by giving the GwG a fixed and consistent number of proposals to focus on at any one time, and which will further prevent backlogs while also giving the voters a smaller (and fixed) number of proposals to review while voting is active.
The whole premise here is that, with ApeChain playing catch-up, a lot of our processes need to be streamlined for efficiency, expediency, and stability (can’t keep writing proposals which seek to deprecate what came before).
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Have you checked BoredMemes? - Now a BBAC and MBA brand
by Lost - Accepted AIP Author
Posted on: June 17, 2024, 2:45 a.m.
Content: Everything checks out, welcome to the forum BoredMemes !!!
:gorilla::blue_heart::gorilla::orange_heart:
Likes: 3
Replies: 0
No replies yet.
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Have you checked BoredMemes? - Now a BBAC and MBA brand
by Lost - Accepted AIP Author
Posted on: June 17, 2024, 2:34 a.m.
Content: Post a meme right now so we know it’s really you :apekinhype:
Likes: 4
Replies: 0
No replies yet.
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AIP-459: The Apemobile - Guerrilla marketing meets a KOL partnership
by Lost - Accepted AIP Author
Posted on: June 15, 2024, 5:44 p.m.
Content: Oh right, I see insurance in there.
Gas covered by @kodama is legit :fire: That has to be nearly $ 50 k over the course of 3 years, if you’re driving around every day :gorilla::gorilla:
Likes: 4
Replies: 0
No replies yet.
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AIP-459: The Apemobile - Guerrilla marketing meets a KOL partnership
by Lost - Accepted AIP Author
Posted on: June 15, 2024, 5:28 p.m.
Content: What about some budget for maintenance, insurance, and gas?
Don’t want the Apemobile to be dirty or riding on a spare tire out there :apekinmegaphone:
Likes: 3
Replies: 1
Replies:
- kodama: Budget for insurance is included in the AIP.
Approx 400€ per month → 15,000 EUR in total for 3 years.
Good points about maintenance. I will add 10,000 EUR for that. If not used it will be returned to the DAO at the end of the 3 year period as well. If spent it will all be documented and invoices will be shared publicly.
Gas will be covered by the AIP author.
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AIP-454: The BANANA Bill: Apes Gotta Eat
by Lost - Accepted AIP Author
Posted on: June 13, 2024, 8:33 p.m.
Content: This has been a long time coming. There are plenty of details in there…
TL;DR:
Objectively, the community representation that so many of us have been waiting for:
Waabam:
Cameron Kates
Cameron Kates is the Chief Legal Officer at Yuga Labs.
Waabam:
Won Kim
Won Kim is the Head of Brand Partnerships at Yuga Labs.
Sustainability built around Community Support:
Waabam:
Any proceeds generated from the commercial agreements will be redirected back into the overall budget for the programs so that this will become a reusable source of funding for supporting and growing ApeChain. Proceeds may come in various forms, such as tokens, revenue share (fiat or crypto), stock, or assets. Given that each of these will need to be dealt with on a case-by-case basis (e.g. what wallet would crypto revenue share be transferred to), the Special Council will determine for each Commercial Agreement how the proceeds will be returned to the Banana Program for continued use during the two year term, or returned to the ApeCoin DAO.
Waabam:
July 24 , 2026 : The Banana Program will be complete, with any remaining funds returned to the DAO treasury.
Degen Fuel:
Waabam:
Additionally, the chain’s growth will offer other valuable opportunities for the DAO, including but not limited to airdrop negotiations, bridge liquidity with associated fee capture, and increased utility for $APE.
gg.
Likes: 8
Replies: 0
No replies yet.
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AIP-451: Improving Voting Cycle Efficiency and Shortening the AIP Process
by Lost - Accepted AIP Author
Posted on: May 6, 2024, 5:36 p.m.
Content: PROPOSAL NAME: Improving Voting Cycle Efficiency and Shortening the AIP Process
TEAM DESCRIPTION:
Hi, I’m @Lost.
Project Manager/Host @ ApeComms
Day 1 BAYC & $APE community member/contributor (Death Nuts Challenge survivor ' 22 )
ApeCoin DAO delegate & Approved AIP Author ( 6 )
10 + years professional experience managing teams, planning events and marketing niche products with Fortune 500 brands
7 + years engaged in the blockchain ecosystem
Contact Information for @Lost:
Discord: hodlr
Twitter: HodlrCollective
Co-Author:
@buuvei -
10 + years of strategic planning and business development experience
100 k+ delegate representative
Thank Ape moonshot finalist
Forum Trust Level Level 3 “Regular”
APEFEST HK performer
Contact Information for @buuvei:
Twitter: i 3 uuve 1
PROPOSAL DESCRIPTION:
This proposal suggests shortening and standardizing the voting cycle for Ape Improvement Proposals (AIPs) in the ApeCoin ecosystem. The proposed changes include reducing the voting period from 13 days back to 6 days and establishing a voting schedule that starts every Thursday at 1 pm UTC ( 6 am PST/ 9 am EST/ 9 pm HKT) and ends every Wednesday at 1 pm UTC ( 6 am PST/ 9 am EST/ 9 pm HKT). The assignment of AIP ID numbers would take place after proposals have been approved to move on to the Live voting stage, aiming to increase the value of each AIP ID # for accepted authors. Additionally, this proposal suggests making the mandatory 7 -day AIP Idea phase optional for all authors, removing any period of time where proposals may be closed for community discussion, clarifying that critical community discussion and material updates to proposals are still expected to occur during all phases of the AIP process.
BENEFIT TO APECOIN ECOSYSTEM:
The aim is to reduce friction in the AIP process and better accommodate the global nature of the DAO.
Streamlining the AIP Process would help to expedite community decision-making processes, enabling the community to react more quickly to changes in the ecosystem and decide on accepting new proposals.
Establishing a fixed voting schedule rooted in Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) would enhance predictability and consistency, making it easier for community members to engage in the governance process.
Preventing AIP Ideas from closing after the initial 7 -day feedback window would allow the community to engage openly with the AIP author throughout the entire AIP process.
Making the AIP Idea phase optional would provide flexibility for the ApeCoin DAO, while ensuring that critical community discussion can still take place during the Draft stage.
Improving efficiency in the assignment of AIP ID numbers would help to preserve community resources, reduce risks to the ApeCoin brand, and increase the perceived value of AIP ID numbers.
STEPS TO IMPLEMENT:
Overview:
Update relevant AIP Process documentation to reflect the proposed changes.
The assignment of AIP ID numbers will take place after proposals have been finally approved to move on to the Live voting stage, this will help avoid wasting community resources and help avoid miscommunications in any instances where proposals are withdrawn by the Authors or Returned for Reconstruction.
Modify Snapshot settings to accommodate the new schedule.
Communicate the changes to the ApeCoin community through official channels.
APE Foundation will still reserve the right to modify voting periods at its discretion (e.g. emergencies, risks to the DAO, etc.) with reasonable notice to the community and for non-AIPs (e.g. elections).
Proposed Changes:
Amend the current AIP voting schedule to begin every Thursday at 1 pm UTC ( 6 am PST/ 9 am EST/ 9 pm HKT) and end every Wednesday at 1 pm UTC ( 6 am PST/ 9 am EST/ 9 pm HKT).
The assignment of AIP ID numbers would take place on the forum after proposals have been approved to move on to the Live voting stage.
The 7 -day AIP Idea phase will become optional for all AIP authors.
The 7 -day community feedback process for AIP Idea’s will no longer close, the AIP Draft stage will proceed as normal.
AIP Authors will still submit their proposal as an AIP Idea. Upon approval of the AIP Idea the Facilitator team will reach out to confirm if the author would like to forgo the 7 -day discussion period, or if their AIP Draft is complete and ready to move forward to the next steps of the AIP process.
If the Author decides to move directly into the AIP Draft phase upon submission, their proposal will remain open for community discussion until the end of the voting phase.
If the proposal is accepted by the community during the live voting phase, a new topic will be opened by the Facilitators under the AIP Execution and Transparency - AIP Implementation Updates section, the community will be able to continue discussing the proposal and any updates under this new topic.
REPORTING EXPECTATIONS:
Although the expectation is that this proposal would be implemented by the DAO’s administrative team, the community should also regularly review the impact of process proposals. If accepted, the community should review the impact of the updates after the 3 -month period for conflict ends.
OVERALL COST:
Total amount requested from the ApeCoin Ecosystem Fund = 0
Instead, the proposal requests that the Ape Foundation would implement the proposed updates to the voting cycle as soon as possible.
Likes: 5
Replies: 5
Replies:
- BoredApeG: Echoing @VonFrontin concerns, there is certainly not enough time for delegations. Most do not even get the AIPs up to their communities within 24 hours of posting. Also, quite a few have councils that set times to meet and discuss AIPs based on their availabilities; this would make it increasingly difficult. Furthermore, 4 days is not enough time for the community get educated because we know most people don’t read AIPs until they are on snapshot.
Case in point, AIP-419 right now has had the most engagement on the X timeline in recent memory. The time for discourse has enabled voters to re-visit their votes, and change their mind. Now the vote has flipped to Against in large part due to early voters such as Yat changing their initial votes. If the proposed timeline was implemented, there would not have been enough time for community discourse to flip this vote.
https://snapshot.org/#/apecoin.eth/proposal/0x91a46e81cc31d442f1fced9fef57c0c7b64154f11aac4822d5c16cbecb3ac39c
Lost:
Streamlining the voting cycle would expedite community decision-making processes, enabling the community to react more quickly to proposed changes and initiatives.
IMO such a short window only benefits the subsection of members glued to their screens at the DAO; most members are not. If people aren’t paying attention/busy, then it provides potential to allow people to “sneak” AIPs through when if given more time, the broader community would not have voted it through. The weekends are also notoriously quiet for DAO voters. 3 business days is simply not enough time.
Lost:
Making the AIP Idea phase optional would provide flexibility while ensuring that critical community discussion can still take place during the Draft stage.
The Idea phase is the only fair opportunity for anyone in the community to have their voice heard. One may not have the votes to make the world of a difference in a snapshot vote, but everyone is on the same playing field for 7-days in the Idea phase on discourse. Voting power doesn’t matter when giving feedback during the Idea phase. Pushing community comment to Draft phase allows any author to effectively bypass obtaining community feedback because they can clear this phase immediately/on the same day if they wanted to.
Lost:
Establishing a fixed voting schedule would enhance predictability and consistency, making it easier for community members to engage in the governance process.
a) referencing again the short window, I don’t believe makes it easier for community members to engage (see AIP-419 where the additional time has been incredibly helpful), and b) the currently established fixed voting schedule has arguably produced the most meaningful results in both passed AIPs and reasonable time for discourse. Do you feel the results have actually been negative that such a drastic change to the current schedule is necessary?
- MisterHype: Lost:
This proposal suggests shortening and standardizing the voting cycle for Ape Improvement Proposals (AIPs) in the ApeCoin ecosystem. The proposed changes include reducing the voting period from 13 days back to 6 days and establishing a voting schedule that starts every Thursday at 1pm UTC (6am PST/9am EST/9pm HKT) and ends every Wednesday at 1pm UTC (6am PST/9am EST/9pm HKT). The assignment of AIP ID numbers would take place after proposals have been approved to move on to the Live voting stage, aiming to increase the value of each AIP ID # for accepted authors. Additionally, this proposal suggests making the mandatory 7-day AIP Idea phase optional for all authors, removing any period of time where proposals may be closed for community discussion, clarifying that critical community discussion and material updates to proposals are still expected to occur during all phases of the AIP process.
Hi @Lost and @buuvei,
This proposal is essential for our governance process, as the 2-week voting cycle has proven to be ineffective. I also like the last updates you made, particularly about the AIP ID which set before an AIP goes live.
Looking forward to seeing this pass.
Best,
-Mr. Hype
- buuvei: Lost:
Preventing AIP Ideas from closing after the initial 7-day feedback window would allow the community to engage openly with the AIP author throughout the entire AIP process.
Remember this is important.
My AIP was closed for some time and did not know how to edit post or reply to it. It has to go through one of the processes to open back up.
- bigbull: Lost:
The proposed changes include reducing the voting period from 13 days back to 6 days
I think this is a bad idea as it means delegations will only get approx. 4 days to vote.
They close their voting earlier as they then need to manually vote and 2 days leaves time for timezone issues (both when they add them on their snapshots and when they cast their delegations choices on ApeCoin.eth).
It also puts unnecessary management burden on delegations, hence will negatively impact growing new delegations.
It will benefit representative delegations where one person has been trusted to vote on others behalf at the expense of more decentralized delegations.
- bigbull: A few points for the community.
UTC is a good idea, as we are global and EST is very US Centric and also not always the timezone of the Cayman Islands (timezone)
So all year, Cayman has the same time, -5 hours Coordinated Universal time (UTC). This means the Islands share Eastern Standard Time (EST= -5 UTC) with Miami and New York from November through April.
Lost:
Establishing a fixed voting schedule rooted in Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) would enhance predictability and consistency, making it easier for community members to engage in the governance process.
Secondly, I think you should make clear that you are a Facilitator in the Facilitator Initiative of the GWG. See AIP-408. As you have this omission in your introduction.
Lost:
TEAM DESCRIPTION:
Hi, I’m @Lost.
Project Manager/Host @ ApeComms
Day 1 BAYC & $APE community member/contributor (Death Nuts Challenge survivor '22)
ApeCoin DAO delegate & Approved AIP Author (6)
10+ years professional experience managing teams, planning events and marketing niche products with Fortune 500 brands
7+ years engaged in the blockchain ecosystem
Thirdly, I agree @VonFrontin delegations will have maybe only 4 days in this new process. As the delegation needs time to actually create their snapshot, which has delays due to global timezones. Also delegations need to close earlier, so they can have time to vote on the main apecoin.eth snapshot.
VonFrontin:
Does this give delegations enough time to get their votes figured out before casting them in Snapshot?
This view is also shared here:
Cryptosheep:
From a delegation standpoint, having only 4-5 days to inform the community isn’t enough. For instance, BOTB’s weekly Saturday 10 AM EST spaces wouldn’t have enough time to invite authors and create a platform for discussion. This could negatively impact smaller delegates.
If the goal is to decentralize and expand the ecosystem, reducing the voting time isn’t the best approach. Curious to hear your feedback, Derek.
Finally, @BoredApeG very much agree to all the great points you made.
AIP-451: Improving Voting Cycle Efficiency and Shortening the AIP Process
Live AIPs
Echoing @VonFrontin concerns, there is certainly not enough time for delegations. Most do not even get the AIPs up to their communities within 24 hours of posting. Also, quite a few have councils that set times to meet and discuss AIPs based on their availabilities; this would make it increasingly difficult. Furthermore, 4 days is not enough time for the community get educated because we know most people don’t read AIPs until they are on snapshot. Case in point, AIP-419 right now has had the mo…
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AIP-422: ApeCoin Rewards App (Resubmission)
by Lost - Accepted AIP Author
Posted on: April 20, 2024, 1:16 p.m.
Content: Totally get the difference, and it doesn’t seem like the size of your grant would be anywhere near the realm of what TA distributes to individuals. My thinking was that there could be a TA portal/tab within the apecoin app where TA is able to offer unique discounts/rewards, point to their contribution types, or verify active users & then reward them for taking advantage of certain offers. Aggregating a bit for the community.
Likes: 5
Replies: 1
Replies:
- VonFrontin: Double tap this. Providing access for users on the front end to spend $APE and brands on the backend to offer deals for using $APE would be huge.
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AIP-422: ApeCoin Rewards App (Resubmission)
by Lost - Accepted AIP Author
Posted on: April 20, 2024, 12:16 p.m.
Content: Hi Kev! Glad to see the resubmission :apekinhype:
Just wondering if there may be a possibility to direct some explicit benefits to future developers who end up launching products using ApeChain, or even just Powered by ApeCoin?
I noticed @Feld comment previously that he would like to see this come through thank ape, but since this would be a white label solution, it seems like you may be able to help provide a more customer friendly UI for them to offer their “thanks” to the community. CC: @dillydilly
:blue_heart:
Likes: 2
Replies: 0
No replies yet.
