The objective here is to have an open conversation on this topic… This suggestion is not related to or endorsing any particular AIP.
Background
As part of my election campaign, I discussed the Financial Sustainability of the ApeCoin Dao. This is a very broad topic and there have been many suggestions made in the history of the ApeCoin Dao.
Historic Forum Posts
1 . Special Council Notes - Former Special Council member @veratheape mentioned an ApeCoin Investment Fund in one of her weekly reports.
2 . Withdraw AIP - @Amplify had a withdrawn AIP about an ApeCoin Investment DAO.
3 . Discussion - @ssp 1111 posted a discussion about Ape 16 z related to Angel/Seed investments.
4 . Passed AIP - Governance Working Group (GWG) OKR 4 in AIP- 317 : ApeCoin DAO Governance and Operations Budget @AllCityBAYC
AIP- 317 : ApeCoin DAO Governance and Operations Budget
OKR 4 : Economic Sustainability & Compliance Study
4 . OBJECTIVE: Explore economic sustainability options through a comprehensive third-party compliance study.
Key Result 1 : Publish a request for proposal (RFP) and begin communicating with recognized third-party research firms to embark on a detailed study, scrutinizing sustainable DAO operations and initiatives, with the aim of unearthing actionable insights for the ApeCoin DAO community.
Key Result 2 : Dissect and assess diverse on-chain structures, prioritizing those that resonate with the ApeCoin DAO’s guiding values while promoting a non-custodial environment. The goal is to shortlist at least three suitable structures to explore further.
Key Result 3 : Provide a comprehensive compliance and regulatory analysis for each shortlisted structure, ensuring the identification of potential risks, requirements, and opportunities to the ApeCoin DAO community. This should lead to a final report that offers a clear recommendation on the most viable structures Before February 28 th.
To get to a sustainable revenue model for the DAO, I see a few broad themes and have listed them here:
1 . Types of Income
a) Operational revenue
i) ApeChain related
ii) DEFI related
iiI) Product related
iv) Services related
2 . Investments (Funding outside of purely Grant AIPs)
a) Direct managed investments
(This means within the Cayman Foundation)
b) In Working Groups running with Non-Profit structures.
Main focus would be to off-set the operational costs. How to handle P&L? Would the principal be protected?
c) InDirect investments via long term investments.
Such as investing in traditional investment funds General Partner/Limited Partner Model. We would be a LP in these funds and not have a management role. However, the focus would be blockchain/crypto/web 3 related. They could be at different stages from Seed, Series A, Series B, Growth etc. What percentage of the funds are invested by the GP? 1 %, 2 %- 5 % etc. We would need to consider if they need to incorporate any aspects related to ApeCoin or not in some of their investments. We also need to think about established funds vs first raise funds. Look at the risk profile, relative to expected return.
3 . Grants that are not investments back to the DAO but aim to use part of the grant for funding investments. AIP recipients can ask for funding to manage an investment program. If the funds given are not invested with a return back to the DAO, they would be considered a Grant and not an investment. How this might work needs some serious thought. Something new isn’t impossible but the risk/rewards for the DAO must be considered.
Summary
Question asked. What is the runway?
One needs to consider that many of the DAO costs are dominated in USDC, whereas the Treasury is in APE. The fluctuation between this pair is important. If the APE price is at 15 then the Treasury of course is 10 times approx. the current value.
Related historic Links:
AIP- 317 : ApeCoin DAO Governance and Operations Budget Accepted AIPs
PROPOSAL NAME: ApeCoin DAO Governance and Operations Budget
PROPOSAL AUTHOR: ApeCoin DAO Governance Working Group Stewards
PROPOSAL CATEGORY: Ecosystem Fund Allocation
ABSTRACT:
[ 1 ]
French: Here
Spanish: Here
Japanese: Here
Simplified Chinese: Here
The primary objective of this budget proposal is to outline a strategic plan for the Governance Working Group (GWG) that ensures continued smooth operations of ApeCoin DAO and effective management of the AIP process. It initiates a more dece…
AIP- 31 : Apecoin Investment DAO + Staking Mechanic - Ecosystem Fund Allocation Withdrawn AIPs
Abstract
Two or three sentences that summarize the proposal.
Babylon.finance is a decentralized asset management protocol that allows communities to create investment clubs, called gardens, in order to pool capital and invest in DeFi together. As an example, you can check The Fountain of ETH garden.
We believe the Apecoin community would benefit from an official Babylon garden where they can deposit APE and create wealth in the form of extra APE tokens from it.
We propose creating an APE Bab…
Ape 16 z - an Angel/Seed Fund managed by professional VCs General
Hey Fam,
UPDATE:
As a follow-up to this General Idea, we’re proposing an Angel Fund of sorts that begins with supporting Made by Apes Licensees through small or medium grants and strategic guidance.
If you’ve been pinged on this Idea, feel free to DM me with your feedback, especially if you’ve been or are involved in Seed Stage or Angel Funding or know the ins and outs of running an incubator before.
Original Post:
As a follow-up to a previous idea and some comments that @Sasha brought up,…
The post discusses the importance of financial sustainability for the ApeCoin DAO, outlining past suggestions and current efforts to secure a solid revenue model. This includes types of income, investment options, and grants for managing investments. Additionally, considerations about costs in USDC vs. APE and related historic links are highlighted.
Love that you’re picking this discussion back up
I think it’s the next logical step for us. Learn f…
Love that you’re picking this discussion back up
I think it’s the next logical step for us. Learn from the projects which did not cement their revenue models in time and thought that burning through investor money (just drawing a brief similarity) was feasible in the long term, but we all know better
At one point or another, we have to reach a point of financial sustainability and not just burning through our liquidity. For this, we’ll have to go back to the basics. But If we’re able successfully implement this, then we’ll be unstoppable
It is good to clarify that SC and Stewards are not employees of the Cayman Foundation. They are se…
It is good to clarify that SC and Stewards are not employees of the Cayman Foundation. They are service providers to the Cayman Foundation, such as the Special Council.
However, Stewards are NOT directly service providers to the Foundation, but in the case of the Governance Working Group it is a Non Profit LLC which is a recipient of an AIP. The Stewards are part of that corporation, but not as employees. If the Cayman Foundation were paying salaries they would be also paying sick leave, holiday pay, health insurance, pension, potential redundancy costs etc.
However, I understand what you are trying to say that we need to know the total costs per annum.
Once calculated we can compare OPEX to Grant expenditure and in the future to Grants and Investments.
On a side note, it is very important we don’t confuse Grant giving with Investment funding.
We are not salaried employees. I am just clarifying the facts. For example, GWG had to pass an …
We are not salaried employees. I am just clarifying the facts. For example, GWG had to pass an AIP for funding.
That would be great to know. Maybe the Governance Working Group can calculate the numbers? @bigbull
That would be great to know. Maybe the Governance Working Group can calculate the numbers? @bigbull
bigbull: You can find more info here.
Transparency Hub
<strong>This category provides updates from the Ape Foundation’s Administration, including the Special Council and Webslinger.</strong>
Exactly this. But I am also certain that the moment something like this is seriously considered, a …
Exactly this. But I am also certain that the moment something like this is seriously considered, a lot of people will be “activated” and come here to defend it. This is by far the largest impact thing that could be done.
Even from a learnings perspective, staking is so 2021 . It was a ponzi scheme that worked until every project independently discovered that it’s not sustainable. Very few projects seriously consider staking (especially such basic staking like ours) in 2024 .
Lost.Admin - This user is a moderator, Facilitator
Jan. 23, 2024, 12:50 p.m.
Hi @chimperton,
The funds for staking are deployed on a quarterly cadence from the Ecosystem Fund, …
Hi @chimperton,
The funds for staking are deployed on a quarterly cadence from the Ecosystem Fund, with funds reserved, based on the original AIP.
The emission program (staking), would end in just over a year from now.
There’s also some discussion around this AIP to end NFT-based staking, continue single-sided staking, and do an airdrop.
Real and sustainable value is what really matters most!
nothing survives without it!
Real and sustainable value is what really matters most!
nothing survives without it!
This issue definitely needs to be discussed. The DAO is preparing its own destruction by constantly…
This issue definitely needs to be discussed. The DAO is preparing its own destruction by constantly establishing funds. As long as no income can be produced, DAO will have nothing left to give and will have a worthless treasure. For this reason, the perception on social media is distorted and only short-term thoughts prevail. Unless the DAO creates a net revenue stream for itself, I’ll be on the negative side of the votes…
A gentle reminder, please don’t make assumptions or impolite comments to members of our community.
…
A gentle reminder, please don’t make assumptions or impolite comments to members of our community.
Much of the information you are looking for is located in the APE Transparency Reports, which are published every quarter:
Q 3 2023 APE Transparency Report Transparency Hub
Hi ApeCoin DAO community,
We are pleased to publish Q 3 2023 Ape Transparency Report. This report shows $APE balances, inflows and outflows, and grants that have been allocated, paid, and remaining.
Full reports linked here
[:memo:] Q 3 2023 (Jun-Sept 2023 )
A TLDR; version of the report can be found at this Twitter (link)
drive.google.com
Ape Foundation - Transparency Report - Q 3 2023 FINAL.pdf
Google Drive file.
image 2102 × 516 65 . 8 KB
3 . 3 OUTFLOWS
3 . 3 . 1 ADMINISTRATIVE EXPENSES
The Foundation incurred administrative fees and expenses of APE 226 , 396 during the Period.
3 . 3 . 2 CUSTODIAL FEES
The Foundation paid APE 299 , 267 to Coinbase for custodial services in the Period.
3 . 3 . 3 LEGAL FEES
The Foundation paid legal fees and disbursements in the amount of APE 742 , 716 during the Period. This relates to compliance review, entity administration, general licensing, and other corporate matters.
3 . 3 . 4 SPECIAL COUNCIL FEES
The Foundation paid APE 214 , 495 to the Special Council.
These don’t include GWG outflow/cost, which are including with other AIP recipients here - 3 . 3 . 5 GRANT EXPENSES
As you can see, the majority of the Operational outflows are not from the GWG.
You can find more info here.
Transparency Hub
<strong>This category provides updates from t…
You can find more info here.
Transparency Hub
This category provides updates from the Ape Foundation’s Administration, including the Special Council and Webslinger.
Authentic and lasting value is essential; without it, nothing can endure or thrive successfully in …
Authentic and lasting value is essential; without it, nothing can endure or thrive successfully in the long term.
Establishing funds is key. Without income, the DAO won’t have anything of value. This impacts how p…
Establishing funds is key. Without income, the DAO won’t have anything of value. This impacts how people see it on social media and encourages short-term thinking. If the DAO doesn’t start making money, I’ll probably vote against it.
How do you see the balance between operational revenue from ApeChain, DEFI, products, and services …
How do you see the balance between operational revenue from ApeChain, DEFI, products, and services playing out? Also, the idea of both direct and indirect investments brings a unique perspective. Can you elaborate more on the risk management strategies for long-term investments in blockchain/crypto funds? Exciting possibilities ahead for ApeCoin DAO
The value of the treasury can fluctuate significantly based on the price of APE seven if the treasu…
The value of the treasury can fluctuate significantly based on the price of APE seven if the treasury is holding a large amount of APE its actual purchasing power could be very different from what it appears on paper. This could make it difficult to plan and budget for the future.
I like that you are thinking about various sources of income, such as the revenue from ApeChain ope…
I like that you are thinking about various sources of income, such as the revenue from ApeChain operations, DEFI, products, and services you listed above. It is important to find the right mix and have different income sources. Keep doing well :muscle:!
