Discounted $ape sale for TL 2 (Trust Level 2 ) members & above.
16 . 9 m $ape to be sold at a 75 % reduction.
Rewarding active community members & giving them the opportunity to have a larger voice during our votes.
Treasury will get an immediate cash injection of roughly $ 3 , 000 , 000 dollars.
TEAM DESCRIPTION:
Furious - Long time DAO member.
PROPOSAL DESCRIPTION:
16 . 9 million $ape will be sold to TL 2 members and above.
This $ape will be sold at a reduced rate of 75 %. Meaning at the time of sale TL 2 members can purchase $ape at a cost of 25 % of its FMV (fair market value).
Any $ape not purchased when the sale ends will be returned to the DAO. Similarly, all proceeds from the sale will be sent to the DAO.
BENEFIT TO APECOIN ECOSYSTEM:
TL 2 members are the backbone of our community. They engage in DAO discussions, submit proposals, vote and shill $ape far and wide, and contribute in so many more ways.
As a small thank you this AIP seeks to reward those contributions and retain these members for many years to come.
The reduced sale of 16 . 9 m $ape will see more tokens get into the hands of long term stakeholders.
The expectation being that most tokens will find their way into our voting process - creating a more representative input (larger say) for our most loyal, active and knowledgeable stakeholders.
The DAO treasury would receive $ 2 , 700 , 000 (using today’s $ape price) once the sale concludes.
DEFINITIONS:
25 % of FMV - The day the sale takes place an average price of $ape will be generated using the last seven days. This figure will then be reduced by 75 %.
TL 2 members - snapshot from 12 am UTC on 28 th August 2024 will be used.
Furious will be excluded from making any claim as author of this AIP. Co-authors and any other members who contribute will not be excluded.
STEPS TO IMPLEMENT:
Create/identify a system to facilitate the sale to eligible persons.
Compile a list of eligible persons - to be inspected and approved by the community.
Determine how long the sale should be live/open.
OVERALL COST:
16 . 9 million $ape.
(Potentially a small cost for oversight of the sale creation, if necessary.)
TL 2 members and above in an online community are being offered a discounted sale of 16.9 million $ape tokens at a 75% reduction in its fair market value. This initiative aims to reward and retain active community members, providing them with a larger voice in the platform's voting process. The sale will inject approximately $3,000,000 into the community treasury, with the expectation of enhancing engagement and representation within the ecosystem. The proposal excludes the author and outlines steps to implement the sale, aiming to allocate most tokens to long-term stakeholders for a more inclusive decision-making process.
Evil: furiousanger:
Create a system to facilitate the sale to eligible persons.
Cost to build this : $409k usd in $ape
Contractor: that one bayc guy with his tech company
This is the only AIP in the history of the DAO that will immediately return almost $ 3 , 000 , 000 …
This is the only AIP in the history of the DAO that will immediately return almost $ 3 , 000 , 000 dollars to the treasury.:moneybag::money_mouth_face::dollar:
With a true treasury balance of less than 140 m $ape - we have spent approximately 330 million $ape to date - yet the most we’ve ever had back is roughly five thousand dollars total ($ 5 , 000 ). :grimacing:
Just let that sink in. :saluting_face:
FrankNFT: this is one of the main problem of grants, its not investing, the DAO should think a little more about returns too and not just give out free money all the time.
A few questions:
What are the short and long-term effects should this be implemented?
Who is going …
A few questions:
What are the short and long-term effects should this be implemented?
Who is going to decide how long the sale is?
Who is going to determine the purchase limit?
What currency or token are we selling APE into?
Do we need a cash(*see above) injection into the treasury?
Why 16 . 9 M APE?
Hi mate,
What are the short and long-term effects should this be implemented?
Short term we’ll be a…
Hi mate,
What are the short and long-term effects should this be implemented?
Short term we’ll be able to pay for the administrators for another 2 years (they cost us $ 1 . 4 m dollars a year currently).
Long term I hope that every AIP is compared against mine and judged on the monetary value they return - especially while we are in such uncertain times money wise re our runway/sustainability.
Who is going to decide how long the sale is?
Will be listening to community feedback - probably doesn’t need to be long ( 24 / 48 hours) - if it’s advertised and communicated well.
Who is going to determine the purchase limit?
That determines itself - total divided by the number of eligible members.
Example if 1 , 000 members qualify and the ask stays at 16 . 9 m $ape:
16 . 9 m \ 1000 = 16 . 9 k $ape cap
Meaning, each qualified person who submits their wallet will have the ability to purchase up to 16 , 900 $ape at the reduced rate.
Any unsold $ape will be automatically returned back to the designated DAO wallet trustlessly.
Similarly, all the proceeds from the sale will be sent to the designated DAO wallet trustlessly.
All qualifying wallets will simply be whitelisted.
What currency or token are we selling APE into?
Will depend on where the sale is held - seems odd to let people buy $ape with $ape based on what I’m trying to achieve - but again I’ll take direction from the community.
*Do we need a cash(see above) injection into the treasury?
Currently we’re broke. We more or less are waiting each month for tokens to become unlocked to pay the bills and grants we approve - this is unsustainable and will mean we’ll be closing the doors soon.
So is getting a minimum of approx $ 3 million back from a grant immediately a bad thing when all we’ve seen from spending and allocating 330 million $ape to date is barely $ 5 K?
Why 16 . 9 M APE?
Glad you asked that - I took my inspiration from the bananas bill - I just randomly pulled a number out of the air and I’ll decrease or increase depending on the community’s reaction/feedback.
Thanks as always for the hard questions. :handshake:
AIP seeks to:
Reward active members that make the DAO what it is.
Retain members and not lose thei…
AIP seeks to:
Reward active members that make the DAO what it is.
Retain members and not lose their talents to other DAOs.
Get more $ape into the hands of people who really care about the DAO and will likely HODL.
Give our more loyal contributors a larger voice during votes.
Return millions of dollars to the DAO using a trustless system so we have assured runway for at least 1 . 5 / 2 more years.
Attract new members to the DAO.
Show other DAOs new ways in which they can reward contributors even years after a token has been launched (using a “fire-sale” method).
150 , 000 , 000 $ape was claimable for bayc/mayc/bakc holders.
Many of those claimants sold and have little to no input in the DAO.
So my idea is to get tokens into the hands of those who have contributed, who have bought and held their $ape to be a part of what we’re all trying to build - so let’s make those voices louder during voting - and distribute more $ape at a cut price cost.
NB: I am open to extending the TL 2 and above criteria - if anyone has suggestions with good reasons to do so, please share. (This idea is to reward contributions of all forms.)
Thanks.
furiousanger:
Create a system to facilitate the sale to eligible persons.
Cost to build this…
furiousanger:
Create a system to facilitate the sale to eligible persons.
Cost to build this : $ 409 k usd in $ape
Contractor: that one bayc guy with his tech company
furiousanger: lol - yep we’re not that AIP.
I think it’ll be a pretty standard off the shelf option…
I’ll ask Feld at BoringSecurity to suggest something possibly. Nowhere near that stage yet tho.
Plenty people here at the DAO if we need to go a custom route.
Thing I’m trying to establish rn is whether there’s massive pushback or is this something people will get behind.
Once I have a feel for this I’ll lock in the details and pad out the idea with more specifics with everyone’s help.
Thanks mate.
Also jokes aside, a genuine concern, people can buy at a 25 % discount and once received will imme…
Also jokes aside, a genuine concern, people can buy at a 25 % discount and once received will immediately dump it on-chain. Not all but maybe some might.
Instead of this, I would like to see a Cex trading campaign reward instead across different geographical locations.
furiousanger: They’ll be people who sell for sure. I’ve got no issue with that. But by identifying the most active and loyal DAO contributors I strongly believe we will see a large majority buy and hold as they continue to engage with the DAO.
I feel those who do sell will probably do a 50/50 option - sell half and keep half - enabling them to fund their continued DAO presence, or at the least give some relief to the financial burden of devoting time which is a massive cost they will have covered.
We have to reward and retain our most loyal and active contributors imo and I think this is an appropriate and fair way of doing so.
Certainly would like people to make suggestions on how to make this idea a success.
Thanks.
furiousanger: Evil:
I would like to see a Cex trading campaign reward instead across different geographical locations.
This is a great idea - we need to incentivise new users that’s for sure.
But I think this should be funded from the 100m $ape bananas bill, and not be a new cost for the DAO.
Hope to see this happen mate.
Thanks
lol - yep we’re not that AIP. :rofl::rofl::handshake::handshake:
I think it’ll be a pretty standard…
lol - yep we’re not that AIP. :rofl::rofl::handshake::handshake:
I think it’ll be a pretty standard off the shelf option…
I’ll ask Feld at BoringSecurity to suggest something possibly. Nowhere near that stage yet tho.
Plenty people here at the DAO if we need to go a custom route. :wink:
Thing I’m trying to establish rn is whether there’s massive pushback or is this something people will get behind.
Once I have a feel for this I’ll lock in the details and pad out the idea with more specifics with everyone’s help. :pray::handshake:
Thanks mate.:blue_heart:
They’ll be people who sell for sure. I’ve got no issue with that. But by identifying the most activ…
They’ll be people who sell for sure. I’ve got no issue with that. But by identifying the most active and loyal DAO contributors I strongly believe we will see a large majority buy and hold as they continue to engage with the DAO.
I feel those who do sell will probably do a 50 / 50 option - sell half and keep half - enabling them to fund their continued DAO presence, or at the least give some relief to the financial burden of devoting time which is a massive cost they will have covered.
We have to reward and retain our most loyal and active contributors imo and I think this is an appropriate and fair way of doing so.
Certainly would like people to make suggestions on how to make this idea a success. :handshake:
Thanks.
Evil:
I would like to see a Cex trading campaign reward instead across different geographical …
Evil:
I would like to see a Cex trading campaign reward instead across different geographical locations.
This is a great idea - we need to incentivise new users that’s for sure.
But I think this should be funded from the 100 m $ape bananas bill, and not be a new cost for the DAO.
Hope to see this happen mate. :handshake:
Thanks
There are currently only 16 TL 3 + 499 TL 2 members here. So you believe that those folks are…
There are currently only 16 TL 3 + 499 TL 2 members here. So you believe that those folks are going to buy up 16 . 9 M $ape?
Plus, people who can afford to buy that amount in tokens are smart enough not to buy $ape at this point, then just hodl. Reason being the token has no utility and there’s no catalyst for it to pump. And no, ApeChain isn’t going to do that in the short-term. And so, they’re going to buy it at discount and immediately dump it. :man_shrugging:
Hi mate.
So currently there’s 499 TL 2 (member badge). Also would include TL 3 people - which I…
Hi mate.
So currently there’s 499 TL 2 (member badge). Also would include TL 3 people - which I think is the 16 members you’re quoting.
Some ofc are admin accounts and duplicates we can cancel out so no double dipping occurs.
But happy to explore other options with a view to incorporating more people who have devoted their time and effort to the DAO over the years. (Not sure currently if that’s possible tho.
So let’s go with 500 people automatically qualifying right out the gate.
Would mean each could buy up to 33 . 8 K $ape at a discounted rate.
Thanks.
SmartAPE:
Plus, people who can afford to buy that amount in tokens are smart enough not to buy…
SmartAPE:
Plus, people who can afford to buy that amount in tokens are smart enough not to buy $ape at this point, then just hodl. Reason being the token has no utility and there’s no catalyst for it to pump. And no, ApeChain isn’t going to do that in the short-term. And so, they’re going to buy it at discount and immediately dump it. :man_shrugging:
So right now it would cost $ 5 . 4 K (applying 75 % discount), to buy the maximum amount of $ape using the above figures and cap - 33 . 8 K $ape per person.
Any $ape that is unsold will be returned back to the DAO wallet plus all funds raised from the sale - millions of dollars basically.
Giving the most active members the opportunity to increase their voting power whilst raising money for the DAO for me is absolute genius. Name one other AIP doing this or that has done this since we’ve spent 330 , 000 , 000 $ape.
Sure people will sell some - that’s web 3 - but I cannot think of a more likely group of people not to sell than those who are here regularly contributing trying to make apecoin and the DAO the best it can be.
Maybe there can be some sort of staggering applied over a set amount of time for the purchasing and a mechanic added that decreases you’re purchasing power if you have sold. Happy to explore these avenues.
Alternatively we can continue to give out multiple millions in $ape until the treasury is empty. :man_shrugging:
Thanks.
Manakel: furiousanger:
Alternatively we can continue to give out multiple millions in $ape until the treasury is empty.
So the argument here is let’s spend it on ourselves before others spend it.
How about we stop proposing rubbish and definitely stop voting through rubbish.
SmartAPE: furiousanger:
Giving the most active members the opportunity to increase their voting power whilst raising money for the DAO for me is absolute genius. Name one other AIP doing this or that has done this since we’ve spent 330,000,000 $ape.
So, instead of doing a delegated voting wallet, you want to sell $ape at a discount and then run the risk of some people dumping which basically depletes the treasury that you’re trying to boost? If this is about voting, then it should be via delegated wallets and not discount sales.
ps. I would literally die laughing if anyone bought $ape then hodl just so they can vote for proposals in a DAO that very few (that being us here) actually give a toss about. No, that would amount to the very same metric of people who currently hold millions in $ape and have never come here let alone voted in any election.
furiousanger:
Alternatively we can continue to give out multiple millions in $ape until the treasury is empty.
Well, the answer to that conundrum is to fix the voting system, not creating yet another avenue that ends up taking advantage of the DAO. It’s why I wrote AIP-474 as a precursor to AIP-471: Special Council To Propose Voting System Reform. And as we all know and have said time and time again, no way the whales give up control of the DAO; and unless the Foundation takes upon itself to revise the voting system we’re likely stuck with it all the way to zero.
Never seen a better way to crash the value of a share price than having a “fire sale” on the stock.…
Never seen a better way to crash the value of a share price than having a “fire sale” on the stock.
Do you really believe this will look good for APEcoin and APEchain. I think not.
furiousanger:
Alternatively we can continue to give out multiple millions in $ape until the tr…
furiousanger:
Alternatively we can continue to give out multiple millions in $ape until the treasury is empty.
So the argument here is let’s spend it on ourselves before others spend it.
How about we stop proposing rubbish and definitely stop voting through rubbish.
SmartAPE: Manakel:
So the argument here is let’s spend it on ourselves before others spend it.
How about we stop proposing rubbish and definitely stop voting through rubbish.
Don’t do that. We’re all friends here, and trying to find a solution to specific challenges in the DAO.
Crash lol. What nonsense.
Let’s just keep on with what we been doing - $ape price down 98 % and th…
Crash lol. What nonsense.
Let’s just keep on with what we been doing - $ape price down 98 % and the treasury almost empty - as that’s definitely working.
Thanks.
Manakel: Absolutely it will crash to 25% value, do you think market makers are going to buy them off you at a premium, it will probably go down before you even got your coins.
Any company doing a public offering at a discount sees their share price drop the moment the announcement is made.
Not saying what’s been going on is working, the DAO has been the biggest selling pressure for many months. Only 16hrs ago funds were moved from the treasury and $1m found its way onto the exchanges in minutes.
SmartAPE: furiousanger:
Crash lol. What nonsense.
Let’s just keep on with what we been doing - $ape price down 98% and the treasury almost empty - as that’s definitely working.
He was talking about rl investments which is precisely what tends to happen. Sure, your idea isn’t going to “crash” the token to any meaningful extent, but as I mentioned above, it will definitely adversely affect the token price. And that’s setting aside the whole issue of optics.
furiousanger:
So currently there’s 499 TL 2 (member badge). Also would include TL 3 people…
furiousanger:
So currently there’s 499 TL 2 (member badge). Also would include TL 3 people - which I think is the 16 members you’re quoting.
Right. Thanks for catching that.
furiousanger:
But happy to explore other options with a view to incorporating more people who have devoted their time and effort to the DAO over the years. (Not sure currently if that’s possible tho.
I don’t think using the trust levels is an equitable solution because Discourse isn’t the only social outlet for DAO participation. Plus, there are thousands of $ape holders who have never come here, let alone other social outlets. And so, arguably, that they bought and hold $ape would have more weight than mere participation in social outlets.
Further, at TGE, Apes were airdropped over 150 M in tokens - and most of them immediately sold. And so now, this proposal seeks to reward some of those same people who are likely to do the same thing once they buy these tokens.
As for the math, well, while it may seem like the DAO is going to get close to $ 3 M in revenue, the double-edge sword is that the sell pressure will devalue the token and completely wipe away those gains. This is a deflationary token with zero utility and no catalyst for growth. And so, only investors and true believers are going to buy and hold.
furiousanger:
So let’s go with 500 people automatically qualifying right out the gate.
Would mean each could buy up to 33 . 8 K $ape at a discounted rate.
I don’t see that as being an equitable solution. Aside from the fact that such an AIP would still be subject to the 69 % for funding over $ 250 K rule as per AIP- 436 . :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
furiousanger: SmartAPE:
I don’t think using the trust levels is an equitable solution because Discourse isn’t the only social outlet for DAO participation.
Well you gotta at least read the AIPs and they’re posted on the forum. So I’m gonna pushback on TL2 not being a good option to gauge participation.
SmartAPE:
Further, at TGE, Apes were airdropped over 150M in tokens - and most of them immediately sold.
And we just see AIP-489 (set to increase bayc/mayc/koda/deed holders voting power) was voted down which for me proves that the community is far much bigger nowadays than just apes, as it was always intended to be.
Thanks.
Absolutely it will crash to 25 % value, do you think market makers are going to buy them off you a…
Absolutely it will crash to 25 % value, do you think market makers are going to buy them off you at a premium, it will probably go down before you even got your coins.
Any company doing a public offering at a discount sees their share price drop the moment the announcement is made.
Not saying what’s been going on is working, the DAO has been the biggest selling pressure for many months. Only 16 hrs ago funds were moved from the treasury and $ 1 m found its way onto the exchanges in minutes.
furiousanger: Here’s a good read for you. Maybe post comments there too. Cheers.
x.com
vitalik.eth
@VitalikButerin
One related point is that giving tokens away for free is not the only "form factor" that makes sense for this: you can also do discounted sales.
I talk about reasons why to do this here:
vitalik.eth.limo/general/2021/0…
Depending on the degree of membership/contribution you can prove,… x.com/i/web/status/1… pic.x.com/pdvs6dytfo
9:45 AM - 28 Aug 2024
760
80
SmartAPE: Manakel:
Not saying what’s been going on is working, the DAO has been the biggest selling pressure for many months. Only 16hrs ago funds were moved from the treasury and $1m found its way onto the exchanges in minutes.
Yeah, those AIPs aren’t going to fund themselves.
Here’s a good read for you. Maybe post comments there too. Cheers.
x.com
vitalik.eth
@Vitalik…
Here’s a good read for you. Maybe post comments there too. Cheers.
x.com
vitalik.eth
@VitalikButerin
One related point is that giving tokens away for free is not the only "form factor" that makes sense for this: you can also do discounted sales.
I talk about reasons why to do this here:
vitalik.eth.limo/general/ 2021 / 0 …
Depending on the degree of membership/contribution you can prove,… x.com/i/web/status/ 1 … pic.x.com/pdvs 6 dytfo
9 : 45 AM - 28 Aug 2024
760
80
